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[Shaz51]

@utopia, @Appleblossom, @Faith-and-Hope 

as you know I did the opposite , single until i was 43 and married for a 11 years

sometimes I find it still hard from being single for soo long and being married now

don`t get me wrong I love my husband but I loved being single too

sometimes I feel guilty thinking that i loved being single but  I am happy that i was single , but when I was single I did get lonely as I lost friends because they got married

but then I was soo involved in helping people and working looking after children and and lots of volunary jobs too and travelling

and now I am happy thn and now and what i have done but not with everything I have been through all my life

hope this makes sense , I think my thinking is running away so i am going to stop now xoxoxo

[Appleblossom]

Its volunteer and we do a minimum of 7 hours per month. Averaging a short shift a fortnight. They invest a lot in their vollie culture, though this event was for all staff only 2 vollies there. They make knowledge sharing a celebrated part of the culture. All the zoo-keepers have different specialities and go off interstate or around the world developing links and strategies. This lady is head of our Learning Experiences Team and it was confronting to see the poverty in the school, but now they are getting support from Melb.

Yes it has been life saving.  I dont feel alone and dont have to say much, cos they are all on a similar wavelength, but I come home with a glow instead of being worn out by work. (tho often a sweat!)  On the loo they had a sign up counting all the different actions that people have contributed ... sense of humour too ...

Sometimes I join groups and it has not been that satisfactory, but this one seems to be a very good fit.  It is social, outdoors, gives me Vit D, and fitness without being OTT at the gym, and intellectually rewarding.... always learning ... and the animals are beautiful.  Lots of Cape Barren Geese today.  I am proud I got it right for a visitor, just checked online. 

[utopia]

I think you @Appleblossom & you @Shaz51 - when both single had the right attitude. Keeping busy. Doing what you love. Being useful.
I'll have to take a leaf out of your books.

[soul]

Just sitting here listening to you lovely people talk. Will contribute later. Wishing you all a beautiful day.

[Appleblossom]

Hi! I have missed you @soul

@utopia I had to negotiate some flexibility about how I fitted into their requirements and expectations, but it has worked out surprisingly well. There is a drop out rate. I was fairly cautious and uncertain when I began.

Do what we do do well, but not stretch ourselves too thin that we cannot manage.

[Owlunar]

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@Appleblossomwrote:

Hello @Owlunar @Faith-and-Hope @utopia

Yes parenting with all the practical aspects and the choices and values and guesses and gambles about what will be the best ... is a tuff gig.  I remember the loneliness when I was married too F&H. I have been single about 16 years and it is easier as things 

Just back from a lovely day at the zoo. For the last 2 days I had intense interactions with older foregn women.grandmas that were lovely and they were both really grateful. My role is visitor engagement and I am lucky I can be spontaneous with all ages, and getting more experience. You never know til you have a go.My first time out on the trails I was nervous, but the culture there is good.  There is always someone smiling and saying hello as they get on to their specific job and the public is 99% in a good mood .. apart from the odd crying toddler. Some convos last 30 seconds about 7 mins. We had a PD talk about a Rhino sanctuary in Uganda that need readers and boots and water bottles.

There is a healing aspect for me as I reflect on the various family roles and typical scenarios that I had during my very distressed period.

Dont give up @utopia Your interests and values made a difference to me. I felt less alone knowing you were parent who actually cared enough to go off and your research. No one is perfect we muddle along. ... as @Owlunar says in that big puddle ...on mother earth.

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Hi @Appleblossom

I liked this post so much I wanted to give it two Likes - so I think I have my "really like" clipart somewhere

I am really into muddlin' along in the puddle of Mothe Earth - we are all a works-in-progress - a process that does not stop until we die - so we are where we are

I seem to get along with everyone in my life - considering my toxic siblings are not part of it - I find I tend to smile first when I address someone - and unless that person is determined to rub me up the wrong way I get along fine

There is a huge difference between being alone and being lonely - social isolation is not the same for everyone - perhaps that is a spectrum issue - maybe all of it is

But for the most part I was really lonely when I was married and people didn't see this until only a few days before we separated when I dragged my then-h along to a church bush-dance and my ex sat at a table alone and had "grouch" written all over him - and the men at the church - the other choristers, the vestry - that is the church committee - and just about every man I knew there danced we with - as if to say they could see what my ex was about - not joining in that's for sure - that night I felt more welcome at every other thing I was involved in except my marriage

It really does take two to make a marriage and I tried for years attending to marriage councelling alone - I didn't want to end it but reasonably - I couldn't

Anyway - I don't regret my life - I can't change it - I couldn't get my ex to move out of his shadow - now I think he was depressed but yeah - I was really angry at the end of my marriage and so glad I am out of it

I had a bad week - those issues are not over but I have to attend to my own health first and I have felt better doing that

Thanks peeps - this is a great convo

Dec

[utopia]

@Appleblossom. I really think we need to teach our sons (& our daughters) to speak about their feelings. Just imagine if your ex husband had been able to open up to you. What a difference it would have made in both your lives.
The same with my ex husband. We are not mind readers. So it's hard to fix what we don't know.
My son doesn't talk to me about feelings and emotions. I think he learnt not to do that based on my example these past 4 years.
But I'm really happy to know he and his mates do speak openly about these things. And he also does with his girlfriend.

[Owlunar]

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@utopiawrote:
@Owlunar- maybe we need to push ourselves to get out there and start a conversation with someone. At the supermarket or on the street. Sort of g'day. Love your dress. It's stunning. Or what a cute dog. What is his name.
Maybe we need to get out of our social isolation cocoon.
@Faith-and-Hopethat would have been so hard raising all your kids pretty much on your own while your husband was working such long hours.

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You are right @utopia - I get out and about when I can - I find a good place to have a friendly chat is outside the local shops - people sit there with their dogs having a coffee and they are only too happy to talk about their pets - like I am I guess but I can't take my cat for a walk - she is just not into it

But she loves going to the vet and it is time for her to have her claws clipped again and I think she loves the attention - all these young woman fussing around her - and she loves it - and I have a cat to talk about - good chats

Last week a man came from Mepacs to check my key - and my cat got up when he arrived and the door was open - lovely day outside - and Companion cat kept looking at the door and then at the man and didn't know what to do first - she loves people

I talk to taxi-drivers, the people who come to assist me with domestic chores or shopping, and the people at my doctor's clinic - some people are just so happy to chat with someone now and again - my life is one long series of chats so it keeps the alone-feelings away

But last week events came tpgether like a perfect storm - daughter and rellies sick - feeling side FX from the BP medication - the charge for non-attendance with my therapist - it really was too much and add that to sore knees and dizziness - I had to stay at home and this is something I always find hard because going out and walking is one way I deal with everything

So it was a really hard week - daughter is still communicating with texts but she did talk to me about her operation next week - I can't get in touch with my special relatives but that will have to wait - and would you get this - my therapist has written to my doctor saying I could use more sessions - I don't think she has the registered letter yet because it was re-directed - 

And I am feeling okay now - I have to put myself first - this can be really hard at time but yes - after what seems like a hurricane it seems I can't do more right now except what I have - prepared dinner

Thanks everyone for your support during the last storm

Dec

@utopia@Appleblossom@Appleblossom@Shaz51@Faith-and-Hope@Former-Member

[Owlunar]

Hi @utopia

I just tried to imagine what it would have been like if my ex-h had not closed himself off the way he did - I cried sometimes trying to get him to talk to me -  even the mundane details of his daily life would have been listening to - but alas - even that became too hard

Thinking back our marriage took a couple of blows in the first year - I miscarried twice and becoming a family meant a lot to us but time passed and it didn't happen. 

I kept miscarrying and this eventually led to an adoption and then the son my husband wanted to much was so distressed and unhappy my ex just seemed more and more morose and if he had been able to share his emotions - share anything - it would have made so much difference

Still now I have no idea how he is - I don't think  our daughter knows anything much - I know the town where he lives and that he and his second wife travel a lot - strange - I couldn't get my husband to go our for a picnic or a movie and now he travels with his wife

I'm not jealous - why would I be? - had we remained married he might have been the same and now he does get around and I am glad for that because I get around alone 

Maybe he learned a lot when we were married - he just wasn't listening but he heard - he thought it could last forever that way and he was really rattled when he realised the  second time we separated it had a reason he had not noticed before

I just hope that my thoughts that he is better off now are real

Dec

[Appleblossom]

On a sciencey level - water is necessary for life ... thats why I love your puddly phrase @Owlunar and I too live through a series of conversations. I dont think of it so much as relationships, but relationships do unfold from a series of conversation and other ways of connecting.

If I think about relationships my feelings run rampant. My anxiety and panic go from zero to 100 ... so maybe its best learning to have chats.

@utopia I am really not used to feely talk.  I have been getting better since I joined this forum. I did do therapy that got me in touch with my feelings, but it was within red foam covered walls. The aim was to feel very intensely, going back to the vulnerability of being a baby, there was less attention to feeling words. Those times in primal did unlock memories and images that were helpful to me. Connecting words to the feelings has been a life's journey. At the same time I was studying very cerebral stuff - Jaques Lacan - Freud - which was quite distant from feeling words.  I could not really connect it all up at the time. So I am learning to do that now.

My ex was better at talking about feelings than me.I did not realise how much a people pleaser I was. He was too arrogant & skeptical which became cynical.  We put a lot of emphasis on his emotional expression.  I supported him to paint, sculpt and write 2 manuscripts which helped him process his psychotic delusional thoughts. The paintings were often dark, ugly and confrontational, they were better on the wall than in his head. We also talked a lot about science and the history of mental illness. I learned from him, but He complicated things by having children with more than one mother and not being able to sort that out properly in a way that was fair to me or my children. Endless whining about his ex who also had Sz.  For the first 5 years I was passionate about helping him, but my body broke with the unreasonable pressures he put on me, and after years of pain I became very angry with him.  I saw him last week and we were polite, but there is no love any more. It is better we are apart and salvaged the good things and resources of the marriage. We both have a house. He is a success in many ways, has been off meds for 25 years, though he is a perfectionist, paranoid and solitary. He is painting in his retirement and still renovates old houses.  I gave him a purpose when I agreed to take on his baby in a dark time of his life. I respect that he struggled with mental state issues.  He came from a well to do family with the top health care in the States, which helped us understand and source good psych care here. 

i agree it is important to encourage young men to be in touch with feelings, but I cant be too didactic about it.  I model, with humour, play fighting, relating to character, movies, computer games.  Medication is muddying my son's feelings but we are working through things. He had a major episode in October which is still "delicato".

That said, I had a lovely evening with him. He cooked, we watched our show and now he is playing piano.