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[utopia]

@Appleblossom. I struggle with trying to work out what my feelings are. I can say anger, sadness, happy, but not much else. It's something my psychologist is slowly trying to work on with me.
Sorry to hear your son is still suffering from last years episode. God I hate that it sometimes takes so long to recover from episodes.
@Owlunar. I think after divorce - all of us reflect on what went wrong. I know my ex husband does things with his new wife, that I was always trying to get him to do with us. It's a sting, when you first learn of it. But the reality is - I wouldn't want him back in my life. And I hope that he is living a happy life now (just not too happy - lol).

[Appleblossom]

@utopia I like your sense of humour.  We need it when our dreams for good relationships turn sour.

One thing that my ex did was try and make his ex .. jealous about him being with me ... it was daft & immature ... tho they were both a lot older than me (10 and 15 years) ... and did nothing to consolidate his relationship with me ...When I finally had a few hours free with my own children to care for he was always moping about her and complaining about her Sz tendencies ... when I had put a lot of effort in helping him manage his.  It wore me down ... and in the end turned me off ... he never could express gratitude ... while I was grateful for shoes, coats and beds for my kids ...now at least my son realises that I always have been genuine and inclusive regarding mental health Dx ... and that his dad is just one person ...in a peoplescape full of struggling humans.  Dx or not.  And that his dad had a lot of opportunity and support, whereas others faced stigma.

even his ex .. benefitted as I was identifying with our bub ... as the daughter of 2 parents with Sz .. and determined to give the natural mother a good chance ... it was in family therapy that I heard that her endless late night phone calls were a form of abuse .. but by then I was such a wreck it took many years to gain the confidence to leave and then many years to recover.

[utopia]

@Appleblossom. I think you are right. It does take a long time to recover from a relationship breakdown - especially when children are involved.
When my ex remarried - I went out of my way to make sure she and my son connected. I didn't want her to play the role of mum - but of an Aunty - another sage adult he could talk to if he had any problem.
There was a problem though. She had a problem with me & in part with my son. In her culture divorce is unheard of. So she married a divorcee (my ex). But she didn't like to think that he had an ex. And that our son was raised an Aussie and his father never taught him their language or culture.
Seriously, I tried to put her at ease explaining that I had no interest in my ex - as a man - but only as a father to our son. When she also had a son, I made sure my son thought of him as his brother - not a half brother. But she wasn't even happy with that. So now we just ignore each other. It's such a shame as it would have been a good lesson to teach both of our sons, that break ups don't mean you have to hate the person. That we can all get along.
Sad. But it's not to be.

[Appleblossom]

I believe you @utopia

I was like that except the cultures I was not sure about were the dominant American and Australian middle class cultures!  Our circumstances were unique, but the more I talk with people. Everybody's circumstances are unique.  There is so much mixing and intermarriage. It can be part of the exoticness and attraction.  Culture plays a huge part in family connectedness and disconnectedness. With break ups we do need to be able to talk about it without being closed down for fear of racism.  I only realised I was a stepmother about 6 years into the situation, when my 2nd daughter was told off at entry to primary school, by a teacher that I was not her sister's real mother ... Eyes opened.

By about 10 years of that, with all the deaths, I was very agonised, borderline catatonic and frenzied at times, but still functioning in many areas. I had to sacrifice all my biological relationships to his requirements.  After separation I became a bit legalistic and scientific in my thinking in an attempt to try and get to the bottom of all of it. I did not apply my scientific side to family earlier as I blindly did my best to love them all and that family of origin stuff was ALL just too DEEP and complicated to be fathomed.  So now I do call the chiild I took on a first daughter, my biological children's half sibling. I personally had no legal rights just responsibilities. The ex played people off against each other to feel important and fought over. He did a great job of that with my foster girl and my first born. They are so different, cant really be close, though all the daily care was interwoven in shared prams, bathtimes, food and table, and bedrooms etc ...There was no talk like that when I actually lived with and was raising her. In many ways she got better deals than my kids as my hands were always tied. He would not have even gotten custody without me.  Maybe if I had sent them to separate schools, but at that time it did not happen often. I was trying to socialise them well and the girls do have very good social skills.  

The lines were blurred in so many ways.  Where my responsibilities started and finished were not clear.  Last week in therapy. my psychologist scoffed at how disgraceful it was that I was expected to take ALL the day to day care 24/7 for 16 years without any support for authority.  It has taken this long to get that understanding. Does not really help my daughter or son, but it keeps me alive.

 Anyway thats all about me. I hope you dont mind if I call@eth over to this thread, she recently thought I had it all sorted re my daughters, but that is only at a superficial level.  Each interaction I have currently, causes me to reflect on what happened when my 3 kids were growing up.  I tried the impossibie and ended up in the moon.

Now I have to feed the cat!

Thanks for reading and talking. I could not do it in a normal social way 20-30 years ago when all the stuff was happening. 

I have also tried to reach over Aussie, Polish, Latin American and Chinese cultural differences with my siblings marriages and kids.  Culture and ethnicity needs to be brought out because glossing over such things means losing  a cohesive story or causal links.... and so on to mental illness ... 

[eth]

Hi @Appleblossom  I didn't think you had it all sorted, more like taken a step back and not engaging in a poor relationship dynamic - hoping this is closer to your reality than the impression I gave.

[soul]

Man - aren't relationships complicated? If we are so evolved, how come we stuff it up so much? I think non human animals have better ways of interacting with each other. 

I am trying to navigate new relationships now that I have moved on. I often wish I could go back in time and make more informed choices but that's not possible. I am at the stage whereImy self esteem has improved and I realise that I deserve more in life than what I got.

I suppose it makes me picky but that's probably not a bad thing. I was always inclined to see the good in everyone and give them the benefit of the doubt often to my detriment. Need to use my head and my heart, put myself first - not in a selfish way but in order to self preserve.

[utopia]

I agree @Appleblossom about culture. It is a significant part of a persons personality. I wish my son was taught his fathers language. My son just got home from his dads. I asked about hus 3 year old brother. I said he myst be a real chatterbox at this age. My son said "yeah - but he doesn't use English". Such a pity because they can't connect as well as brothers should.
Hi @eth.
@soul - I wouldn't use the word 'picky'. I'd say you know what is right for you and won't settle for anything less. As I hope we have all learned to do.
I'm not in the dating game yet, but I've learned a few tricks my psychologist taught me - for how to determine very early in the date - his values. So I'm prepared with what I've been taught - but don't think I'm ready yet for the emotions of dating.
Well it seems to me that we all agree relationships are complicated.

[soul]

Dating tricks @utopia - sounds intriguing?? Care to share??

[Appleblossom]

@eth No worries I did not want to give a false impression, thats all.  I am maternal in my way.  It is healing for me to say that now. Now I realise how unusual my childhood actually was, and OTT the early marriage was.  I have emerged from the agonised confusion of soup that was my disturbed soul for a few years. Not many would actually go the distance I did without a pregnancy.  I certainly would not willingly abandon a child I birthed, but it might look like that.  At the time I was naive in odd ways. There had not been many divorces in the family.  

@soul Maybe modern life is complicated and people are becoming more complicated by the challenges we face. I remember your opening posts about relationships. Can only say best wishes ...

@utopia Sad about the 2 brothers not speaking the same language yet.  The father has responsibility to engender some bonding and connection ... .

My Latin American nephews had the Spanish thing for years.  Different languages both divides and makes for communication. My Aussie and half chinese nephews (same dad) were never on the same page, only in a couple of photos for mother. It was hard for my son as he connected with them all when he was little but the cousins all spread apart not of his doing.  It was very obviously a form of control of the child that the mothers used ... to NOT use English ... to exclude other relationships from forming.  Both the mothers were fluent in English as well as Spanish (my sister) and Mandarin (sisterinlaw).  My mother was NOT fluent in English when I was born and I FELT connected to HER and to father and to Indigenous People.  Thats stretching across a lot of different cultural boundaries. We have all been "stretched". No wonder I turned into a pretzel. lol I was more angry and bitter, but the music, teaching, community work and zoo help a lot.  

Thanks for the good company.

I hope you all have a good night. Start of a new week.

[utopia]

@Appleblossom - my ex and his wife only speak their native tongue at home - even when my son is there - even knowing he doesn't understand the language. They ONLY speak English when talking to my son directly. It is extremely isolating for my son.
Yes his father has responsibilities. He just chooses not to do them. His loss. But it hurts me, because it hurts my son.
@soul. My psychologist said to work oyt what your top 5 values would be. Eg: honesty, compassion, etc. We will all have different ones.
When on the date, don't ask your date directlyif he is hohonest or compassionate - because people can be fake on first dates and will reply Yes, just to please or look good.
The trick is to bring up a topic that may have been in the news recently. Keep your tone level, to not give hints about your thoughts. Then try to get him to join in the conversation. Maybe play devils advocate and try and support the opposing view you really hold. See how he responds.
Also, it's not just about how he treats you om the date (although he should treat you with respect) - see how he treats the waiters/waitresses. Is he calm and polite if the food he requested is not available, or does he go off the deep end.
Your future partner should have at a minimum 4 of your 5 values.
Now I'm not talking about life interests. They may be the same or different. They don't seem to matter as much. Although if he was into hunting and your a vegan or an animal rights acrivist - it will male a big difference. Lol.
But those core values, that you hold so close, those values that make you who you are - they are not negotiable with a future partner.
You just have to plan some topics - to get to know his true values - ahead of the date.