Difficulty telling people how I really feel.

[Former-Member]

Wow 🙂 that is great @Sahara !! Congrats and fingers crossed it continues to go smoothly!

[Owlunar]

Hi @Sahara

That's really fantastic that you have had your interview with your Ph.D supervisor - it sounds as if things have turned a corner and you are able to move ahead

I am really pleased for you

Dec

[Owlunar]

I agree @Sahara - the beach is fantastic - I could walk there but it's a long walk and then I have to walk back - which is why I like to have my holidays at Lakes Entrance

No plans for today - I am tired and feel sore today - so I am making some soup and tidying up after all the paperwork - after I have had the soup you never know - I might just go to bed - it's bleak and drizzly her today

Dec

[Sahara]

Thanks @Owlunar, @Former-Member and @Former-Member.

I am very pleased... everything should go smoothly with the uni application, etc. Just a lot of paperwork to get together now.

Well, one thing is that I love being at home reading all day.. so now I will have an excuse to do just that. The only small problem is that I may become more of a hermit than I already am. Doing a PhD is such a solitary thing... part of it's appeal for me. 

@Owlunar, I have been to Lakes Entrance a few times... they have such a beautiful beach there. It really is one of the most impressive beaches I have ever seen. The others are at Port Douglas and perhaps at Bribie Island, near Brisbane. 

I am a bit of a beach fanatic- I have been to Waikiki in Hawaii, too. 

As far as beaches go- Australia has the most beautiful beaches in the world, but I am biased, of course. 

I do the same as you, by the way- I cook soup on cold days when I'm stuck inside. And then a nice nap, why not?

[Sahara]

I've been away from the internet for a few days. Finally the weekend has arrived and I can have some time to myself. 

I saw my Dad yesterday... another 6 hour round trip on the bus for me. He seems ok, considering everything. I was slightly more comfortable around him this time. There wasn't a lot of 'doom and gloom' going on, thankfully. My sis is taking him out for the day, today, so I'm grateful for that.

I managed to get a couple of hours free to do some shopping in town... woohoo! Not many shops where I'm from, so it was a novelty for me. 

Yeah, overall, I am feeling heaps better than I was a few months ago. I think that for me, it's a realisation that I'm the one in control of my own life, and for the most part, I can really do the things I want to do. 

I was brought up to believe that I had to be there for everyone else and go along with what they wanted. It just seemed easier to try and please other people, in order to be liked and accepted. The things I wanted for myself were never given any importance. It really is incredible, when I think about it... that I could allow myself to lead a life for other people and not value myself and my own needs, at all.

The more I start to do things that are 'just for me' the better I feel. It goes against the general assumption that we are supposed to help others and be there for others, so I can barely understand this. How can it be? How can pleasing myself be the path to happiness?

[Owlunar]

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@Sahara wrote:

Yeah, overall, I am feeling heaps better than I was a few months ago. I think that for me, it's a realisation that I'm the one in control of my own life, and for the most part, I can really do the things I want to do. 

I was brought up to believe that I had to be there for everyone else and go along with what they wanted. It just seemed easier to try and please other people, in order to be liked and accepted. The things I wanted for myself were never given any importance. It really is incredible, when I think about it... that I could allow myself to lead a life for other people and not value myself and my own needs, at all.

The more I start to do things that are 'just for me' the better I feel. It goes against the general assumption that we are supposed to help others and be there for others, so I can barely understand this. How can it be? How can pleasing myself be the path to happiness?

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Hi @Sahara

We need to do things for ourselves - I wonder where I would be today if I hadn't done that when my daughter was having a nap - or I only insisted she stay in her room - the year before she went to kinder and I had to do things when my son was at school - I did a correspondence course and studied for one hour each week day afternoon

And my mother told me that my toddler - 3 years old - hated me studying - and I felt the burn - I should not be doing that - but I continued studying - and yes - I insisted on having that time for myself but with my troublesome son I did everything I had to when he was out of the house - botheration

LIke you - there was pressure on me to do things for other people - 

And a lot depends on culture - I have a friend whose mother is from Europe and if my friend gets of early any day - her mother thinks that time is for her - not her daughter - and she grasps that time

I don't expect my daughter to give up her free time for me - I think it has a lot to do with when we grew up - my mother was a glorious martyr - and I think the only time she was happy when she had a part-time job for a few years and had something for herself

I think the spin-off from what I did over 40 years ago now has it's gift in my present - I am happy to see my family but I can get by without them - I spend hours alone and I am happy in my own skin

I am glad you are finding this - it must be so hard for people who don't realise that they are entitled to please themselves

After all - if we are always doing things for other people there's a chance that no one is happy - if we please ourselves - at least one person is happy

Yes - there are times when we have to be there for other people - but it is less of a strain if we are fulfilling our own need for time and interests

Goodonyer Sahara

Dec

[Former-Member]

Hi @Sahara, I relate so much to your life experience, and thank you for posting so openly. Makes me feel less alone. Glad you are feeling better in yourself. I understand what you mean about looking after yourself. even feeling so foreign. You know - even the bible says "love one another as you love yourself"  My psychologist, and many others have often told me "you're very hard on yourself" Then my psych informs me that we tend to treat others the way we treat ourself. Hmm.. Does that mean I'm hard on others? Now this became relevant to me.  It made me realise that yes, I can be critical of others, expect them to self sacrifice, get angry when they don't make me feel loved... omg the penny dropped, I do say these things to myself. Self Compassion came up in therapy, this is a hard one for me because I'm not use to looking after me, i fel lost if nobody needs me. Russ Harris has a book called "Reality Slap" this book gave me the tools (exercises) to practise the art of

- self compassion

- being kind to myself & 

- being my own best friend

And yes, the amazing spinoff was that by growing it in myself - I had it more to give to others. Doesn't make sense but works. Also, it eased the pain of loneliness. 

Glad for you Sahara, thanks for reminding me

Lapses 🌷🌿💜

[Sahara]

Thanks @Owlunar and @Former-Member,

It is so interesting to read other people's point of view on this. I think that intellectually I know that we are supposed to be kind to ourselves and I usually go through all the right motions of being kind to myself. For example, I take long bubble baths, I go and get my hair done, I slather myself with body lotion, I do my yoga and relaxation exercises... I take myself out for coffee... I curl up with a good book and a fluffy blanket. When I am doing all these things- I definitely enjoy them! If fact, I feel like I could spend all day just doing these things, and not much else!

@Former-Member, I don't really know if I am hard on myself or judgemental about myself... it's difficult to tell. I think I can be.... 

But for me, I sometimes feel that I don't really even exist!! It's so difficult to get my head around. Of course I do exist. Obviously I do. It's just that somewhere deep inside me, I have come to feel that I am just an extension of everyone else's needs and wants. Unless I am doing someone else's bidding, then I don't feel like I matter. 

I think that's why I ran into trouble with the community group that I led. I tried so hard not to make it about me, that I got lost in it. I just did hundreds of hours of work to try and please others. I thought 'helping people is meant to be satisfying'. Every single spiritual tradition tells us that to help others is the path to fulfillment. Why didn't it work for me? Why did I just get frustrated and feel unappreciated? 

Well, one reason is that there is a huge difference in helping others and enabling them. I think I enabled a lot of people in our group to get away with being lazy! Lazy and basically disrespectful. 

Last week, I spoke to a friend of mine whose brother is separating from his wife. She was very, very upset about the way her brother is being treated. I keep feeling that I should call her this week and ask if she is ok. In the past, I definitely would have called her by now. I would have anxiety about it.... thinking "Is she ok? I hope she is ok?"

Now, I really do wonder if I should wait until she calls me. Because whether or not she is ok is her issue. I don't have to do all the worrying for her. It's just that my very identity seems to be so tired up with being there for other people, that I have trouble getting past this.

The funny thing is, that I long ago gave up expecting anyone to ever be there for me! That's why I sometimes have this feeling... "do I even exist?"  Because no-one seems to ever call me up and check if I am ok.... not even when I was severely depressed. 

I know I have to continually shift the focus back onto myself and what I really want from my life. 

[Owlunar]

Hi @Sahara

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@Sahara wrote:

. It's just that somewhere deep inside me, I have come to feel that I am just an extension of everyone else's needs and wants. Unless I am doing someone else's bidding, then I don't feel like I matter. 

Gee Sahara - I have thought about this - doing something for someone else's bidding is a really good way to get lost in whatever we are doing - because yes - if we are only doing something to please someone else we really are not doing it for the right reasons unless we are pleasing ourselves in some way when we are doing it

It's a struggle women have with society - for as long as there have been women we have been expected and therefore expect ourselves to hold the heavy end. In pre-history some guy threw the bones of his dinner around the cave and went out to hunt some more and his mate - probably bored out of her brains because she was stuck in the cave with the kids - cleaned up the bones and dressed the hides of what he had hunted and tended the fire and got more firewood and cooked dinner while she sewed some clothes with some primitive needle until he got back with another carcas and the whole thing started again -

And again

And again

And darn it - we interited all this until it reached me one day - I had enough - I woke up one morning are realised that I was living my life tending to the house and everything else for three other people and jacked up - I started studying and no one was happy about that - as I wrote before - but I did it and today I still study in private and I love it - I still do it - and feeling rather done in today - I think I will go back to bed and read some more of my magazine about this very subject - ancient civilizations - it pleases me

So - after that rant - it is rather up to us to take care of our own lives - after all - no one else will - basically - and one thing I hate is that I should do something to pamper myself - I already care for myself - and why do people suggest I drink tea - I can't stand tea

Anyway - let's move on

'helping people is meant to be satisfying'. Every single spiritual tradition tells us that to help others is the path to fulfillment. Why didn't it work for me? Why did I just get frustrated and feel unappreciated?

I haven't read very spiritual tradition - really I only know my own - and I am wondering where it says that - in this website I am free to tell you a story in it's Biblical form because I am free to do so - but I did re-write this as the Good Foriegner - it's the Good Samiritan of course - and you know most of the story I am sure

So what did he do - he tended the man on the side of the road as any kind person would do and took him to the inn and cared for him there and paid the innkeeper - for what he already he owe and told the innkeeper to care for the man himself and then went on his way - promising to pay anymore that was owed - but we don't know whether he returned or not

So - here we are - we help those in need of it if we can - it is not the path to self-fulfiment - it's the decent thing to do and if we are kind then it is in our nature - we do not endanger ourselves or put ourselves out about things - we do what's in front of us and move on - and live our decent lives

Next thing

Well, one reason is that there is a huge difference in helping others and enabling them. I think I enabled a lot of people in our group to get away with being lazy! Lazy and basically disrespectful. 

Sahara - here's another story - if we help - we give someone who is starving a loaf of bread - they will be hungry the next day so we are obliged to give them another - and another - and was good as this might sound - they might get to expect this and  wow - I cannot say anything else without becoming disrepectful myself

But as a teacher - my second profession - I saw myself as enabling - I was teaching ESL and BAL - Basic Adult Literacy - when it comes back to the hungry people - giving them seed and a book to read on cultivation of crops is enabling - helping them to help themselves

Enough of that

Get in touch with your friend if you feel like it - don't if you feel it's a duty - just give her that call people find so hard to give us - let her know you are thinking of her

I think you are tired of feeling that you have to be there for other people. We have to work hard on being her for ourselves - we are emacipated females but the world expects something else - do what pleases you - you write well her - write her a note - for yourself - because you are a kind person and she can reply if she feels like it - or not - but that's not up to you 

I can definitely tell you that you exists - I enjoy your posts and think you are a vibrant caring intelligent person who cares about other people. The trouble is people are not that caring in return

We need to follow a life that fulfills ourselves - when we are doing that - we know who we are and we can help others or enable others then. We need to find ourselves and who we are first

Wow - some tough love - when I told my mother I was emancipiated I had two young children and I was still married - well - she laughed at me - but being emanicipated is not in what we have to do each day - it a mind-set - we learn to be free of the hunter and his needs and his kids and the cave - and whatever else we do - we free our minds for ourselves. We tend to our cave, our kids, our minds

Here ends the lesson

Dec

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[Sahara]

Thanks @Owlunar,

for taking the time to write so thoughtfully. I appreciate it.

I see you are a bit of a feminist (the other 'F' word!), like myself. Great.  I am even thinking of doing some writing on feminism in my Ph.D. But then I found out my supervisor is a man... so I wondered how well that would go down? But, low and behold, my male supervisor even suggested that I include feminism in my writing, so how amazing is that?

I am digressing. 

Do you know, @Owlunar, that one of the reasons that I didn't want children was that I already felt like I was everyone's mother!!

I was already looking after everyone else and I was resentful. Please bear in mind that no-one was forcing me to be there for everyone else.... it's something that seemed to come from within me, and I didn't like it. I would even go so far as to say that it was a compulsion and an addiction!

Then, I saw two very close friends of mine have children and I saw their day to day struggles... and to me, sorry to say, parenthood looked terrible. It looked like my worst nightmare!! Non-stop caring for others, from which there was no break. 

Don't be alarmed- my two friends felt the same way- it's not like they tried to convince me otherwise. They did not enjoy parenthood.... at least not all the time. They found it grueling. 

Well, thank goodness for contraception. If there were no reliable contraception, I believe that I would have remained celibate forever!

Yes, I like the story of the Good Samaritan. It is a beautiful story. Perhaps in the Christian tradition, kindness to others is not supposed to bring us happiness, so much, as it is just the "right thing to do".

In the Buddhist tradition, kindness to others is a path to fulfillment. And I very much like the idea in theory, but in practice, I seem to have some problems with it....

I am just going to spend today in relative freedom and see what happens. I do have to call my Dad, but I don't think I'll call my other friend (the one with the brother) today.