Difficulty telling people how I really feel.

[Dogman]

I have been trying to work out myself why I feel the way you've been feeling and yes. I agree with getting angry at people who send mixed messages. I hope you find some self resolution.

[Owlunar]

Hi @Sahara

Societies and religions to seem to enforce the idea that women should efface themselves for others - but happiness - I often wonder what that is - I guess I am comfortable in my skin this morning - and it's sunny but cold - and I feel happy enough - but to me happiness is fleeting - it lasts the time it takes to blow out our birthday candles or pull the paper off our Christmas parcels. It's not stable - but rather I look for a kind of blessedness - that all is well in my little space most of the time - that I have weathered many of life's storms and since my mother died I have found peace in this world - and yet - for my whole life-time there has been some kind of war - starting with WW2 - and inner peace is something precious and to be the focus of our lives.

I believe we have to find peace within ourselves before we can help any one else - we have to understand certain sterotypical ideas that were probably invented by men. Feminism is not new - Queen Victoria's Daughters were great leaders in the World of Female Emancipation and went against Queen Victoria in doing this - and we owe these 5 women a great deal in our European Societies today - for this I am grateful

I wanted to be a mother - and not at all unhappy that I was. I was prepared for the work - I had seen my mother working when my sister was born - and that was never the problem

My first profession was accounting - and I earned more than my husband - and when we adopted our son I gave that up - which seems idiotic to me now - but then - I loved the baby and his inborn misery - who knows what happens to a child before it is adopted? This child was so unhappy - I did all I could for him and it wasn't enough - but this is my story and although it nearly destroyed me I am glad I did it - it has changed a lot in society and I made it my work for 10 years to do what I could for disenfrancised children - but I wouldn't do it again. My daughter was premature and that was a nightmare but I have a fine woman in my life - two actually - so although being a housewife was never my thing - motherhood was I think -

I could have been an accountant and a mother - I went back to studies aftere 5 years of freezing my brain with housework - and I went on doing it - and I still do although I have domestic help because of my spinal pain and the subsequent disability. I don't imind that - the work I mean - it's the attitude from my mother that it was my job to do all of this - and as our marriage crumbled and dissolved and disappeared I wonder a lot if my then-husband was a chronically lazy man due to some kind of MI and I think he was depressed and I didn't see it

But yes - I do understand what you are saying - motherhood is hard work - and to me that's okay - but women lose themselves in it and I never did - I have always seen myself apart from my children - and luckily so - as I have grieved my son for nearly 31 years and it is heartbreaking - 

Enough of my life - I only see it in hindsight now - why not write on feminism - I studied Women's Writing in 3rd and 4th year I think - and I would have liked to have continued studying but I already have a scary HECS debt and studying in private means I can read what I like - write what I like and don't have any deadlines.

I am glad you are taking this chance - it's your choice - and there is no need to serve other people unless it's your choice. Yes - we can be kind to other people - that is normal and decent - but it is never a be-all and end-all - we have to be kind to ourselves first

And for all the good parts - motherhood does gobble us up for a few years - give it 20 years - it consumes - women can be bitchy in mother-groups - and gossip in cliques - motherhood can destroy a person if they are not right for the job. 

I have heard often that not having children is selfish - this is not selfish - it's sensible. What the hell is selfish about not having children? It's not a good idea to have them if we value our lives without them

I am glad to open my own mind on this subject - I lived at the cusp of women returning to work after marriage - and made those choices - it wasn't easy - people nagged at me to stop studying mostly - and there was so much criticism. I often wonder why women have children when they go back to work as soon as they can - but then that is their choice. 

Women by our nature are caught between chairs - we need to wear two hats at once - and this is not good - it really is a fallacy that we can do both well - many women just get by doing this I think - and one thing I am glad of is that for 5 years I stayed at home and cared for my kids - and even then during their early school days I was still around most of the time

But that was my choice and I honour yours

Dec

[Sahara]

Thanks @Owlunar,

for sharing so much of your life's story. It is so interesting. I have a lot of theories on motherhood and child-raising, but I will never get to put them into practice! I think I developed these theories due to my interest in feminism and how bound up our female identities are with biology- that is, the woman has to be the one to birth a child. Men can't do this.  

So does that mean we, as women, are "stuck" with the primary role as the mother/parent, or can we ever escape this? Well, of course plenty of people don't want to escape being  mother, I realise this.

When you say you gave 10 years of your life to work with children who were in need- why do you say you would not do it again? I don't think you regret it, but it was enough for you, perhaps? You wouldn't do more? 

I don't think it's really the work involved with motherhood that scared me off. It was that sense that I would be totally responsible for another human life. It scared me to the bottom of my soul. 

I am a person who always needs an escape route. I always have to be able to leave whatever situation I am in, in case it turns bad. I run for the hills! It's what I do. With motherhood, I felt that there would be no escape... once you are in that situation, there is no getting out of it. It's the finality of it. 

With a marriage or a relationship, you can always leave. Same with a job, or a course of study. You can leave a house, a city, a country, you can leave your friends, your siblings.... all this makes me feel secure, for some reason. I am a leaving type of person. I feel security in being able to get away. A strange, warped sense of security. 

Even with my Ph.D.... and it is an honor to be accepted into the course.... I am right away thinking 'If I decide I don't like it, I can always leave."

And yes, I am like you- I wonder why people bother to have children and then go straight back to work. I suppose they have to work or finacial reasons- but then, do you really need a big mortgage, two cars and holidays interstate every year? Wouldn't you rather raise your own kids, since you went to the trouble of having them (which no-one forced you to do), rather than have a stranger in a child-care center raise them? I guess it's different strokes, for different folks. 

I have one friend who didn't work for 10 years of so after the birth of her first child. Another friend went straight back to work. Neither of these women are happy. They both seem to think their lives are not satisfying. I don't know... I can't relate, anyway. 

[depression101]

I understand your feelings, but I could suggest you re-read your own messsages as if it wasn't you writing.

To me letting Anger out is great but it should be done to achieve a positive outcome. I suggest, respectfully that maybe what you wrote only transferred anger to the recipient and added stresss to you. I can't see that as positive for either person.

Ok her actions may not have been useful and even destructive but thats the risk we take when we relate with others. 

You did have a good relationship at one time, inviting her around for Tea and cake on occassions. Surely that says there is some respect to be had between you.

Maybe even those invites made her feel she could come around even uninvited.

Its not going to help either off you by blocking Communication.There may well be anger still to be discussed, but it needs communication. After all we are all taught that Communication breakdown is the cause of so much trouble in our lives.

Take the high ground. Admit you feel let down not only by jer but others in the group leaving it to you.

Hold out the olive branch.

Love Brian

[Sahara]

Hi @depression101,

yes, I understand what you mean. Was it a positive move to tell this woman how disappointed I was in her actions? For me, I think it was positive, because I honestly rarely tell people how I feel... I just retreat and avoid them. 

So to speak up is something new for me, and I need all the practice I can get at doing so!

The out-come was that she sent an email to my husband, but addressed the email to me. She explained everything from her point of view. It was quite obvious that she had no idea why I was annoyed and frustrated with her. I can only conclude that she goes around giving everyone mixed messages and that this behavior is entirely normal for her.

What is normal for her does not sit well with me, and 'never the twain shall meet'. 

I actually did try and call her the evening of her email, but she didn't answer the phone. She then sent me a nice text message saying that she was very busy with her dogs, but we might get together one day to discuss things. Since then, she has not contacted me, and since this was 6 weeks ago or more, I doubt she ever will!

I haven't run into her, but my husband has, and she was elusive and stand-offish with him.

Anyway, I have to chalk this up to experience. What I could have done was to try and talk to her one to one, on the very evening that she resigned from the board. In fact, I did try and do this, but she was stand-offish and looked uncomfortable and tried to deflect what I was saying, in a polite way. Had she tried to listen to me, she would have discovered that I, too, was frustrated with some of the things that were happening in our group! We might have found common ground. 

I can only imagine that she sees me as an intimidating person who she would like to avoid, but I really have no idea. I have no idea.

If she contacts me, I will be all ears, but I very much doubt I will ever hear from her again!

[Owlunar]

Hi @Sahara

I started to answer your post yesterday when my daughter arrived - then I had another interuption and never got back to this at all - as usual - I have bad days at this time of year and yesterday turned into one of them - 

I am tired today but otherwise okay - winter can be tough for anyone I think - I have another anniversary this week though I can never remember the day - one of my cousins commited suicide some years back - which was worse somehow - and I have to send his parents an email - or maybe write a letter now I have a printer and mail it - which might be better

For 10 years after my son died I worked for reform in the Juvenile Justice System and did a large submission for the Task Force into Youth Suicide and was implemental in the changes made in DHS - among other things - I did this for 10 years and I don't regret that. I'm glad I did this. However I have finished with that now and feel it would not be a good thing to reopen the wounds - so I'm not getting back into it.

When it comes to motherhood I think that we are programmed to have children but we also have a choice. In your case doubts as to whether you could be resposible for the life of another person is a good reason not to. I have no doubts about that. Many women have children because they happen - maybe they trust the male to use birth control which is never a good idea - maybe they are careless themselves. I consider that motherhood is something a woman needs to make a decision about - as I did myself

I was going to put off having a family because I was an accountant with a good job. I was on the pill when I got married but no one told me that antibiotics can lessen the effect of the pill and I got pregnant not long after I married and miscarried straight away - and this changed my mind. I think the first time a woman gets pregnant really changes her mind one way or another - for me - I wanted to have a baby and it was 6 years before my daughter was born

Adopting my son was something I chose and I loved him. It was a nightmare but I know I did my best - it was hard work - I don't regret it but it was something I would never repeat. I hope this makes sense. The Adoption Triangle is full of landmines and no one can see the outcome of any individual situation.

If you feel as if you always need an escape plan - that will work - then motherhood is forever - it's better that you don't. My opinion is that every child should be wanted but that is an ideal that is not easy to maintain. After all - how many children are planned. Mine were - I am not at all sure about other people - but it is pretty clear to me that some women make better mothers than others just as some people are better at accounting, caring, science - whatever - as it says - it takes all kinds to make a world

One thing I have noticed is that women are often unhappy and unfulfilled - children or not women are not given the same cadre in the workplace - we are paid less and overlooked for promotion - women have to work harder for success and I think this is sometimes because women are more likely to stop what work they have to have their children - which is unfair on those who don't have children - and also - there is that Baby Trap - once in it women are trapped for years whether they like it again

But to me it is plain that a woman can't work at a high powered job and have children and maintain everything (though many try) and it is no reflection on her - it's just the way it is. Some women can - but as you say from your own experience - the women you know are not happy.

I look back at the patchwork of motherhood, working and studying of my own life and wonder if I had time to think about it - but my marriage was an unhappy one and whatever I did through those years I did to please myself and that kept me going. I don't mean I was selfish - I wasn't - my kids were well cared for and my son demanded a lot - that's wasn't the problem.

I think I was not at all cut out to be uneffacing - I have done a lot of voluntary work as well - and all the bits of my life except my marriage were what I chose and what was fine and worked out for me. Still looking back - was I happy - no - I don't think so - but I wasn't unhappy a lot of the time either - though my son's death as made my life harder all these years - but it is getting easier.

So - it is hard to answer about women's roles in life - their expectations and the expections of society. I think though - even if it is seen as selfish by society for a woman to make her own choices and fill her life with what pleases her - this can and does include children - but we have the right to lives of our own as well

I hope this helps - I hope you do write on feminism in your dissertation - I would like to read that - 

Dec

[Sahara]

@Owlunar,

thanks for sharing so much of yourself here. I too, am struggling with the cold this winter, but I am pressing on. Luckily, we are having sunny days and I spend some time outside, rugged up and sunning myself and this really helps. 

I understand everything you have written. 

I especially relate to your experience of suffering a miscarriage and then realizing you wanted children. I know this happened to a friend of mine. Once you experience life growing inside you, you change in some way.

It only happened to me one time where I was worried I might be pregnant. I met a man who I was unaccountably attracted to. I don't know why... but he had some kind of charisma... some kind of hold over me. We slipped up and contraception wasn't used this one time. It was as much my fault as his. Then I realised that it was during the unsafe time of the month for me! Oh, no!

I had to wait two weeks for my period and I was so worried I might be pregnant. My period was even a little late. When it did arrive, I was so relieved that I almost fell to my knees and thanked God for his mercy! It was one of the happiest days of my life. Just a feeling of utter joy and freedom, it was so overwhelming. 

Right away, I couldn't care less about the man, or the ill-fated relationship (which ended badly) or anything else in world, apart from the fact that I was now free. 

So I haven't experienced the wonderful feeling of life growing inside me, but I believe what others say, that it is a wonderful thing. I think for me, it would have been a prison sentence. 

I suppose I'll never know what kind of mother I could have been, but I dare say a very angry one. Like my own Mum. 

Well, I wish my own mother had not been so unhappy, but there is nothing to be done about it now. I'm sure that if she had been a happy woman, then I would have turned out a lot differently... and not so afraid and not always wanting an escape route from everything. 

I admire you working with the juvenile justice system... that is an amazing contribution to society. 

[Owlunar]

Hi @Sahara

I am so glad you did not get pregnant that time - it could be a disaster to fall pregnant to such a man - and I know you relieved you must have been

I had several miscarriages before we adopted our son - and then a risky pregnancy to have my daughter - that was a very hard thing to maintiain - and that was enough - I had enough children too - that could be because one was trouble and the other one failed to thrive

But I got pregnant again when my daughter was about 4 - and this was terrible - I cried and gave my then-h a hard time - it was his fault I became pregnant that time - and I was furious - and scared - so it was a relief to miscarry that time and I gave thanks to God for that - but with my history of miscarriage it was probably likely to happen again

I think motherhood was not something that was right for you - still not right - a lot of things have to come to the table for a happy pregnancy and the rest of the experience - starting with the right man. Then you need the right time and right finances and in your case - a mother that was supportive and yours was angry - which I don't think would have made you an angry mother but an unhappy and uncertain mother - yes - that could happen

I have a Japanese annimated movie called Wolf Children. I love it - but it could be a cautionary tale for young students not to get involved with a handsome young "wolf". It is a love story and a good "chick flick" but there is an underlying story that is not on the surface - but this young women found herself widowed with two children who turned into wolves from time to time. Ah - it sounds familiar - but I do love that story and the warning that is not so obvious

I need to remember what work I did for society so many years ago - some people asked me why I stopped and I think it was around the time when Forest Gump  came onto the screen and ran across America a couple of times which gave people "hope" for some reason and when he stopped - he had run enough. I stopped because I felt I had done enough but yes - it has been suggested to me to do more - and I spoke to a therapist about it some time back and she suggest I did not - why would I be doing it? Not for myself I think - but for other people. I do believe whatever we do our primary reason has to be that it fulfils us in some way as well. I don't think it is selfish at all to do things for ourselves - and if it spins off into society then that is a good thing.

I am sure most people are decent and kind and no one wakes up in the morning planning to hurt other people - there maybe some people like that - but really - I think underneath most people are kind. But some people can be bitter and become twisted and that is really sad

Thanks Sahara - it is really great reading your posts

Dec

[Sahara]

@Owlunar,

thanks for being so understanding when I tell you my life issues. It makes me feel better. I know I was not destined to be a Mum- but perhaps in another lifetime I will be a mother and possibly even a great one. But not in this life-time.

I keep meaning write what a therapist once said to me; she said "I think you are still waiting for someone to come along and be a mother to you. That is why you have not had children yet. You haven't had the experience of being mothered yourself."

I think there is some truth in this, but anyway it is too late for me now, at 47.

Can I ask why you did not want the 3rd baby when you daughter was 4? Was it just too many for you? Not that I blame you... not all pregnancies are welcome. As you say, the circumstances have to be just right.

You are right when you say I was with the wrong man when I had that pregnancy scare. Absolutely. But now I am with a nice man, who gave up any hope of ever having kids when he chose to marry me... I am lucky he made that sacrifice for me. He is amazing. 

I had plent of Mr. Wrongs, before I finally met Mr. Right. 

I am feeling kind of hazy right now. I just had a visit from my Dad- my bro drove him a 4 hour round trip, to visit us for lunch. My Dad was in pain and I started to feel anxious about it. I gave him a couple of pain-killers while he was here, but I think he needs a script for something stronger. I called and made him a G.P. appointment for him on Monday.

Now I will worry about him and start thinking I should call his specialist again.... who is actually away at the moment, but their is another doctor covering. It is stressful trying to manage Dad. I don't like being the one trying to make the decisions. I really wish my Dad would take the initiative sometimes. Believe me, he is very capable when it comes to other things.

I am now having a glass of red wine to calm myself down. It is probably the wrong thing to do. No doubt. 

[Sahara]

I slept for 12 hours last night. That is an equal all-time record for me. The only other time I've slept for longer is when I've had jet-lag. I don't feel so anxious today, just feeling down because I think my Dad may not be with us all that much longer. 

Which means I'm going to be needed as the primary carer - as my bro and my sis are not really any good at these things. I find the responsibility very daunting.... but I am beginning to make some plans.... I am trying to get my head around it.  

It means going to stay at the 'House of Misery' for several days each week. Errrh. 

I really have very low energy right at the moment. I will try to do some exercise today.

My Ph.D application hit a little snag, with one of my academic referees asking for more and more information from me, so as he cal fill out the academic report that I need. I've seen the report card- it's extremely basic, with mostly ony a 'tick the box' structure. 

He is asking me for a lot of stuff! I can't believe he is going to be bothered reading through it all. My friend, who is a teacher, says that he probably can't remember me, and that is why he is asking for so much information. I have never had this experience of a referee going to such great lengths to make sure their report is accurate! 

I suppose I should look at it in another light and be greatful that he is doing it. It shows dedication. He could have just ignored the email I sent him and hoped that I'd go away! Perhaps I look on the bad side of things too much. He is actually trying to help me and I am feeling negative about it. This is a very bad habit of mine. 

Any little thing that goes wrong seems to upset me- I am so easily discouraged by things. I don't know why I get like this. I just don't have much confidence, I guess. 

I will need to persevere, if I want to complete a Ph.D. I can't get so discouraged so easily. it's not a good sign. 

Hope everyone has a good day.