Difficulty telling people how I really feel.

[Owlunar]

Frank discussion about grief - could be upsetting

Thanks for sharing @Sahara - it is helpful to build up a personal database in my own mind about what other people are going through

It's good that you are communicating with your sister - able to share what a burden seeing your father is - and yes - she always has to go back to work - I guess she can refer to her phone and say - "Wow all these texts/emails" and leave gracefully for a time

You could do the same - would your Dad know? - but then - I get it

I understand your second post - ah - my mother would not let me grieve for my son at his funeral and then afterwards didn't want to hear about it - believe what I knew to be the truth and the thought that I might grieve was not on her radar at all - so horrible - I felt as if I carried the grief load for the whole family and in retrospect - I did

But after my father died my mother dropped her bundle and lost the plot entirely - and I found this incredibly hard to endure - to remotely understand - like she was entitled and I was not

Personally - as bad as grief is - no one has the right to drop their entire bundle to the point they think they should die - yes - grieve and take time out to mourn - Queen Victoria took about 20 years off being the monarch when Prince Albert died - I feel that was excessive - other people can think differently

Sometimes I think I am unreasonable as I do not know what it is like to have my husband die - but then - I have lived alone for nearly 27 years - and find it is better - it's possible - it's okay

I think my anger is directed at my mother and all right for me to feel this way because it doesn't consume me - it is better to feel anger than push it down and feel depression

Also - a whole family grieves when a member dies - not just one person - so - it's rough to push all the grief-work onto one person and really sad that one person feels they have nothing to live for when someone dies 

I struggle with these feelings

Dec

[Former-Member]

Hi @Sahara

Your father doesn't know what to say as he doesn't understand mental depression. In his mind people need to have reasons "that he can relate to" to feel that way. Such as a tradegy, a terminal illness, the loss of a child or life long partner. He was silent but he would of been thinking about it (he may have been bewildered by your statement or felt guilt). Just by his reaction to what you said he had no idea how you suffered or why as I stated in my earlier post.

 For that generation it was and pretty much still is "taboo" to talk about mental health issues. A different generation. Many baby boomers and those before them never spoke of depression and if any family member suffered such it was shoved under the carpet with the attitude " you need to toughen up" or "just get over it and move on". They knew no different. You won't change his mindset now my friend. Does your own pain this way come into a lot of conversations with your dad? That's the overshadowing of pain that takes the focus of the other that I spoke of. And feeds our resentment/anger/bitterness. Which you felt when he did not speak about it or show empathy.

 If your dad truly understood he would have empathy for you - people empathise only when they can relate. 

My husband would of said the same as your dad did if I died. It's not the mental issue of depression they are expressing - it's part of their soul that they are missing and don't feel complete without there other half with them. Hence "I shouldn't be here without her". In other words "we should be together as we are one". That's not SI, that's the love of soul mates. Even though they argued, they must of been very close.

And this is why he still could not relate to your past struggle with depression. You hadn't lost anyone by death and were young with your whole life in front of you. To him his future is over now. Actually I am surprised he goes for treatment and just doesn't give up and allow himself to pass so he can be with his wife. Shows his love and respect for life. Considering the enormous grief he suffers he is quite strong, brave. If I lost my husband and contracted cancer, I would let it take its course. Particularly seeing my children don't need me.

You will often hear of couples who were very close for years and one dies - the other follows not far behind. One can't live without the other. 

As for complaining about doctors appts, experiencing what I have with my husband and others whom have a lot of medical issues - "situation normal". All get sick of it. I accompany my husband and I am sick of it! But yes, it's a good thing we can have access to health services. And yes, we shouldn't constantly complain as it does drive others away. Hugs xx

[Owlunar]

Hi @Former-Member

I get a lot of what you are saying and much of it is helpful - so I am goingto quote it and leave the bits I have found interesting

---

@OverTheEdge wrote:

Hi @Sahara

Your father doesn't know what to say as he doesn't understand mental depression. In his mind people need to have reasons "that he can relate to" to feel that way. Such as a tradegy, a terminal illness, the loss of a child or life long partner. 

 For that generation it was and pretty much still is "taboo" to talk about mental health issues. A different generation. Many baby boomers and those before them never spoke of depression and if any family member suffered such it was shoved under the carpet with the attitude 

It's not the mental issue of depression they are expressing - it's part of their soul that they are missing and don't feel complete without there other half with them. 

. To him his future is over now. Actually I am surprised he goes for treatment and just doesn't give up and allow himself to pass so he can be with his wife. Shows his love and respect for life. Considering the enormous grief he suffers he is quite strong, brave. If I lost my husband and contracted cancer, I would let it take its course. Particularly seeing my children don't need me.

As for complaining about doctors appts, experiencing what I have with my husband and others whom have a lot of medical issues - "situation normal". All get sick of it. I accompany my husband and I am sick of it! But yes, it's a good thing we can have access to health services. And yes, we shouldn't constantly complain as it does drive others away. Hugs xx

---

There is so much I could comment on - if the conversation continues I might - I think the death of my son has made other losses seem so much less - but really - if I had cancer I would be likely to let nature take its course - the thought of suffering chemo seems horrific - I have lived past the 3 score years and 10 and intend to live my life until the natural end - but not feeling inclined to add to the suffering of my life - that is as a survivor of childhood abuse, an unhappy marriage, chronic pain and worst - the death of my son

But I am older than the Baby Boomers and I do have the mindset to understand the suffering of others - you did say that there are times when one member of a long partnership dies the other follows - my mother waited a few years but died a few days short of my father's anniversary

I think I feel angry with her behaviour when dad died as unreasonable because of her cruelty toward me - I think I have learned to cope with that - or deal with it - or whatever - but when I feel the need to care about her - I get stuck - and yet I loved her

Thanks @Former-Member

Dec

[Former-Member]

Hugs @Owlunar

I was shocked when I read how your mother treated you when your son died 😔 I don't understand that myself - only to say my mother was cold like that too. Your reaction to your mother when your father died I understand - she reaped what she sowed there.

I also understand your choice about dying naturally, letting it take its cause if you were ever faced with that diagnosis (most certainly hope you never will though). My husband is diligent with his treatments and health to be here with me. If I was not here that may be different. Cancer treatment side effects can be well managed now and it depends on where the cancer is to the harshness of its treatments. My husband now has little side effects. But he has many other ailments too, but he never lets them stop him from his purpose in life and enjoying it. He's inspirational.

For me personally to fight a terminal illness or ,as I am doing, grief, anxiety and mental scars, I need a fervour for life. That's comes with having someone to love and who needs me (whether that be a partner, offspring or friends), and to also be passionately involved in something meaningful (volunteer work) and something I enjoy (cross stitch art, reading etc). Take that all away and to me that's not living, just existing and not worth fighting for. Having the latter is worth suffering for. So we weigh it up.......But that's just me. Others love to just be. We are all different.

I also get stuck when it comes to my mother and cannot understand any mother who breaks a natural bond with their child through a lack of love. All I can say is it's a deficiency in them and their loss. And we grieve being deprived of one of the strongest bonds of all - a mothers love. Thank you for your posts @Owlunar xx

[Owlunar]

Thanks @Former-Member

My mother did indeed reap what she sowed - and in the end it came around and really bit - she had terrible regrets and I feel entirely free from guilt and regret that I did not see her for about 2.5 years until just before she died - then I saw a woman who could not hear or speak - weeping because I was there - I was big enough to look past her cruelty and my sister's failure with her duty of care and not answering the notes and cards I sent my mother telling me I would visit if she wanted me to

I did what I did because I cared - but I had been driven away since I was a child - and fought her when she hit me - and when she got into emotional abuse I think I had a look she couldn't understand and she was afraid of me - I was terrified of her but never let her know

When it comes to my end - I am not at all suicidal - I will live my life until God calls - but I also feel extending my life unnaturally is playing God too - he knows my heart - I have honestly had enough - 

I have a beautiful daughter and grand-daughter and feel blessed - but I don't see them often - but often enough - if I last until I am 90 that's enough - I  don't want to go into any kind of supported care - that would be the end for me - I couldn't stand that - so I care for myself with no intention of giving up yet

I don't understand my mother or my sister - I can see reasons for their behaviour but not excuses - they hurt a lot more people than they realise

But the past cannot be changed - I could never hurt my daughter the way I was hurt - 

I have said enough - I am tired tonight and think it's nearly time to go to bed - even if I get up again later

Thanks again for your posts

Dec

[Former-Member]

@Owlunar 💜🌹🤗 xx. Always love talking with you. I always feel good for it. God will never give you anymore than you can cope with. Sweet dreams my friend xxx

[Owlunar]

Thanks @Former-Member

💖🎉🎆🎊

Dec

[Sahara]

Thank you so much @Owlunar and @Former-Member,

for continuing this discussion and writing from the heart about things that are so important. I am taking so much away from this... and I hope you two are feeling some benefit, being able to share your experiences. 

@Owlunar, that is so awful that your Mum could not allow you to grieve the loss of your son. I don't know why a mother would be like that. The only thing I can think of is that she never learnt empathy and had no idea that empathy is a normal and natural thing for human beings to express. I suppose that if you had never had empathy demonstrated to you, then you would not know what it was??? Can that happen?

The other explanation is that perhaps she did feel empathy for you, but expressing that empathy was beyond her...  but to her own daughter, you do have to ask how it could be be?? Oh @Owlunar, all my life I will fail to understand people.... 

My own Mum was not especially empathetic. As an adult I didn't really tell her stuff, anyway. I tried to cover up all my feelings so as I would not be criticised by her. Mostly, if I were upset about something, I would not want to be anywhere near her. I would rather be alone. (Just like an animal in the wild, hiding it's wounds so as another animal would not see that weakness and attack!)

I think I process emotional stuff better when I am alone, to this day. 

Thanks @Former-Member - I can relate to what you have said. You are right, of course. My Dad would not be able to make the connection between me suffering depression and him suffering grief over the loss of my Mum. Even though they are both states of emotional distress and they both lead to thoughts of 'not wanting to be around any longer'.

I really didn't need to bring my own suffering into it... I was expecting a lot form him by doing that. 

I felt upset that you would not want to have a serious illness like cancer treated if you no longer had your husband @Former-Member. If my husband passed, I hope I would want to go on. I don't know- it would be terrifying to live without him. But I did not meet him until I was 40. Up until then, I was always lonely and had no support... I lived a very lonely life, even though I got out and did things. 

To be without my husband would mean loneliness again. But at least I know how that rolls. It would be familiar. I am very experienced at being lonely!

[Former-Member]

Hi @Sahara

I am glad you are taking a lot away from the conversation.

Dont be upset about my wanting to die a natural death without intervening to prevent its cause if my husband was no longer here. That's the closeness of soul mates. It's rare. And I would be happier.  I have always been a independent person throughout my life so I am understanding what you are saying and it's a choice. All are different. So that's not saying you will feel that way or even need to contemplate it - I was stating my own personal circumstance and what is right for me.

For me I would not last long without the other part of my soul. And those who feel this way soon follow naturally or together. I have no doubt that would be the case for me and hubby. He feels the same way and he has a great love of life and is independent and both of us have lived alone. Its not about that. It's "the connection we have" that will last forever and is powerful. We can know what each is thinking and feeling when apart. So please don't be upset. I am whole with him, incomplete without; his love gives me life, is my life as it enables me to fly

And as @Owlunar saids - God knows when we have had enough.....😊

Have you much planned much for this week? Love OTE xx

[Sahara]

Dad Update.

We found out last night that Dad's cancer has spread... it's in his bones now. This is so unexpected. Only six months ago he got the all-clear, that he was in full remission. Now the cancer has progressed so quickly. I am a bit shocked by it all.

I spoke to Dad last night on the phone and he seems to be taking it well. His doctor is going to treat him with aggressive chemo, which she feels is justified. I don't know... whatever he agrees to, is fine by me... it's totally up to him. He has agreed to this treatment... he is of sound mind and a resonable man. 

My sis has taken a week off work! Unbelieveable. She has really changed.... something is different about her. My sis is a workaholic... this is not normal for her. I think what might have happened is that becuase I didn't rush to Dad's side while he is in hospital, she has stepped up... but I think it is very daunting for her.