Friends, Family & Carers Forum

[Jazex]

Hi all,

I am looking for some other perspectives/opinions/advice on the following as i am not entirely sure what to do in this situation, or feel i may be 'blinded' to what is actually occurring. Also, I would like some advice on how to proceed and how I should handle the situation (on the last, most recent situation).

A bit of backstory:

I met this girl a few months ago and at the start, things were really great. We got along, had a lot in common, shared a lot of the same interests, talked regularly (by-daily), etc. We became really close both on a friendship level and romantically involved. We mutually felt as though we had 'known each other for years'. She said she didn’t want a relationship with me, as there were certain ‘non-negotiables’ that I didn’t ‘tick’, but was happy to continue seeing me, spending time together, having fun, etc. I was accepting of the fact that not everyone is compatible and was also happy just being close friends.

Current:

Anyway, fast forward a few of months and I have started to notice something a bit 'off' with the whole friendship, and it feels to me as though it seems as though it is almost all one-sided, or almost as if i am being 'used', although I am not sure as to whether that is just me, due to previous betrayals, abandonments, etc, or whether my intuition actually is somewhat correct here. While we had been chatting the same as we had been from the start, until only just recently i have started to notice a few things that to me, don't seem to quite add up.

• Until only just recently, we had still been talking, close, etc as previously. Recently she told me she had been starting to ‘date’ others again, and would talk to me about dates she had, had been on, etc. I asked if she didn’t tell me about them, as I didn’t want to know about them, although she continuously keeps bringing them up despite this and just says ‘I know u don’t want to hear about this’, yet still tells me anyway.
• She constantly unloads her issues/vents to me, to where I am, or was, happy to listen and offer any support I was able to, although whenever I have issues, she does not reciprocate the same support and almost dismisses them, or changes the subject either to something else, or back to herself.
• Lately, and only more recently now that she is starting to see this other ‘date’ more regularly, she hasn’t been talking to me as much, although when I asked her about this, she advises it’s not just me, and that she also isn’t talking to him as much either (which I personally don’t believe).
• She also says certain things that emasculate/embarrass/humiliate me, although portrays as coming across as ‘just curious’ or ‘joking’, and there have been certain things that she has mentioned to her other friends, and then told me what they thought of certain ‘personal/private’ matters.
• She is more than alright with starting an argument, stating her opinion or boundaries, which I accept and I am fine with. However, whenever I try and state my boundaries, says that she would be more than happy to cut me off without thinking, if there was too much ‘drama’ from me, or too many ‘disagreements’, or arguments, despite it just being a conversation
• She has asked me for quite a few favours (nothing serious), but like a lift here, or there, or to come round when she wasn’t in the best ‘mindset’, or things like massages, comfort, etc. Though when I ask for something simple, smaller, or on par in return, it gets reciprocated with ‘maybe some other time’, or ‘one day’, or ‘I don’t have the energy right now’.
• Also, lately, she has also been saying that she would just ‘cut me off’ if I didn’t contact her first, due to her ‘avoidant’ side.
  
  

I guess my main questions are:

1. Am I right in that this is in fact very toxic, one-sided, selfish or borderline manipulative?
2. The last interaction ended with the ‘if u don’t message me first then u prob know what might happen’, referring to the just not talking to me again/cutting me off. Should I in turn message in some way, or just ignore this completely, not respond, and if she reaches out possibly continue to communicate, or just ignore this completely and move on?
3. What would you do and how would you react if you were in my situation?

Now all of this pretty much screams ‘toxic’ to me, or one-sided, or that I am being taken for a ride. Now as far as things go, I am happy to just not do those things anymore and not play into these games so to speak, then if she cuts me off then so be it.

I wouldn’t mind keeping some level of this friendship (even if that means I set harder boundaries), as honestly, I don’t have a lot (or really any) friends and I struggle to make friends as it is. It would seem like a complete waste to throw this away, when there had been periods of really good times. So should I reach out, but only keep it more generically, friendly without going into much, or do you feel that this was all simply platonic, fake, and just to ‘hook, line, sinker’ so to speak and I have been taken for a ride the whole time?

What would you do and how would you react if you were in my situation? (I am not looking for ‘direct answers’ on what to do, but more other people’s outside perspectives on what they think and what they would do)

Really appreciate anyone taking the time to respond, and look forward to your thoughts and opinions. Thanks!

[MayaBird07]

Hey @Jazex 🙂

Thank you for sharing that.

It feels like an all too familiar story. 

What is scary is that I have also sat on both sides at some point in time. 

Its a tough situation to be in, because it is obvious you value her friendship despite her dating other people. She is on her own journey and really all you can do is focus on yourself.

It is hard to let go of a relationship where you felt so connected. I remember thinking I couldn't love anybody as much as I loved him and that we were made for each other. 

4 years down the track, and a lot of therapy helped me accept things that I can't change, and although I haven't felt anything quite as intense since, the environment was not conductive to my mental wellbeing. 

I was being gas-lighted and it was driving me a little insane, creating a toxic environment. 

The best thing I did was just walk away and let him go. If he sends me a message I answer it politely, but it took a long time to get there. 

I wish you all the best. 

[Jasper_123]

Hi @Jazex ,

Honestly I don't think you are being treated very kindly by your "friend". It sounds to me like she wanted the boyfriend experience until somebody better came along or liked the kind things you did for her but didn't want to help you. She doesn't respect your boundaries, listen to you and makes excuses for her poor behaviour (blaming her avoidant style). 

If you value her I think you can try firmer boundaries - but be honest with yourself, why are you trying to keep her in your life? Is it because you have feelings? 

[Tilz]

@Jazex  Hi Jazex. Thank you for sharing.  Its really hard to be away from a close friend. but do u know it can hurt you a lot at last. see the words  'would be more than happy to cut me off without thinking' . I don't know whether she gives you the real value. In my opinion its best to keep a distance with her. Help her when she need. Listen to her .but don't hurt yourself. Let her talk about her date. but you don't care about it. If you keep on going with that, it will be a great loss for you at last. with her action if she stops talking to you, that will hurt you to worst. so try to avoid those. Have a good friendship but keep in mind the words she said. At any point she can stop your friendship so get ready for it. If I'm in your position i will talk to her when needed but i will keep in mind that she will go away at any point. so don't keep any hope on her. 

[tyme]

How are you @Sem1 ? We are thinking of you and hope you are okay.

[scruffypuffball]

@Jazexyour instincts are correct.  Your intuition (your gut instinct/nervous system) rejects them before your heart and your head does.  This *is* a toxic relationship.  I can see all of her abuse tactics so clearly.  They dont always treat you badly. What you are going through is called intermittent reinforcement or the cycle of abuse (idealise, devalue, discard) where they treat you well then badly then well, badly, well etc and this creates a trauma bond in the brain.  Whenever we form relationships biochemical bonds form in the brain, when the relationship is with a toxic person it is known as a trauma bond.  it is actually more addictive than heroin, that is why it is so hard to leave these relationships.  The fact that she is devaluing you on a regular basis and threatens to discard you on a whim, are such big red flags.  These are the kind of dynamics that play out in Domestic Violence situations.  It is called coercive control.  It is blatant emotional and psychological manipulation.  It is all about power.  You may not be ready to leave the relationship, i had to leave my abusive family who were doing similar things to me and worse.

But when you are ready to leave, you leave quietly.  Go DEEAP:

Dont Engage

Dont Explain

Dont Argue

Dont Personalise

Walk away quietly, do not return text messages, phone calls etc.  You cannot change these people, they are narcissists or psychopaths.  They cannot be changed.  You do not confront them about their behaviour, they will turn on you.  The solution is to detach.

yes it is true we need a support network and we are social animals, but this is not support this is abuse.  we thrive in healthy relationships, not manipulative ones.

[scruffypuffball]

@Jazexmore resources:

https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2024/02/people-who-seem-nice-but-are-actually-psychopaths-d...

https://collective.world/5-signs-youre-not-in-love-youre-trauma-bonded/

[Jazex]

Thank you all for your replies, I really appreciate it!

@scruffypuffball 

Thank you for your in-depth insight and opinion, as well as providing some links to some resources 🙂

It's really nice to hear that my instincts were correct (for once), as i had a feeling that they were.

What you said makes a lot of sense and also resonates to the way i was feeling prior to posting and asking for other people's perspectives and opinions. It's quite sad in that it has turned out this way, but at the end of the day i am also glad that i was able to spot this quite early (compared to other times this has occurred and i haven't spotted it at all), so i am thankful for the fact that at least i am able to start spotting this occurring to be able to either stop it from occurring, or walk away initially.

I like the DEEAP method that you mentioned and funnily enough i actually started to execute this at the time of my original post without knowing, which is good 🙂 . What really stood out, is that i have not contacted her (last messages were just generic, neutral/positive messages) and since not having made contact, i also have not received anything new either, no initiating, etc. This has basically given me the closure i've needed to move on. While it is still somewhat upsetting to lose a friendship, at the end of the day i know i will be better off without this toxic negativity in my life, even if it means being 'lonely' for a while and i actually feel 'stronger' having done this now, to know that in the future i could comfortably do it again if need be without being so 'hurt' by the situation either.

While it is a bit upsetting, having come out of a previous relationship that was emotionally abusive, then having worked on myself for so long (with help) to overcome and get past that, only to then have a new friend after the fact do the exact same thing is a bit of a 'downer,' I feel as though i am a lot more tuned in to what to look out for now, and have taken both as a learning experience, have learnt from both and what to now look for and to recognise and now trust my intuition. So even though both situations were quite negative and toxic in themselves, they also presented me with a lot of good, positive things and the optimism that in time will hopefully never have to endure or experience this again 🙂

Thank you again for your insight and opinion, as it helped me to clarify a few things in my head in terms of my own decisions.

[scruffypuffball]

@Jazexi am glad I could be of assistance.  For more info go to my (and others) contributions in the below link "The Toolshed".  We have been through what you have been through and we share our wisdom and psycho-education.

A helpful therapist saw what I was going through many years ago and told me to research personality disorders so I can recognise the traits and protect myself from interactions with toxic people.  As Bandy X Lee says knowledge is a vaccine against dangerous personalities.

https://arcvic.saneforums.org/t5/Looking-after-ourselves/The-Toolshed/m-p/1351669#M99080