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30 May 2017 01:23 AM
30 May 2017 01:23 AM
30 May 2017 07:39 AM
30 May 2017 07:39 AM
30 May 2017 01:16 PM
30 May 2017 01:16 PM
I am warning that the following was written for Lapses - and it contains a lot of religious content. If this could be a problem I suggest you do not read it - Dec
Hi @Former-Member
It's good to bounce ideas about religious doctrine with other people - it makes us think and question - and I truly believe that God prefers his children to question rather than have blind faith - we really do understand life better if we feel free to question the status quo
God did not punish us by taken our children - as you said you never did bad things but he took her anyway - that is not the God I know personally - also I believe this from the order of prayers in the Anglican Church - this is part of what we pray as we prepare for communion
"But you are the same Lord whose nature is always to have mercy"
We did not do anything such a terrible retribution - we did not do anything at all to cause our children to die and God was not punishing you - and after all - our lost kids were young - teenagers - and whatever happened - they didn't deserve it either -
I think you belong to a Pentacostal branch of the church - and there are some branches of the church have a fixed and sometimes cruel interpretation of what takes place - I know the Bible is full of contradictions - and that is a stumbling block for many people
So my suggestion is to find a more open branch of the church with studies with a leader who has studied the scripture -
And - I am not into a "fairy-floss" religion either - I believe that the Eucharist is about the death and resurrection of Christ our Lord - and that execution was horrific and violent - and there is nothing soft and puffy about that - it's really tough stuff
@lapses wrote:
If he's truly in control - why do even people of great faith have terrible thongs happen while scoffers standby in their comfort?
Lapses - this is the big philosophical question about God - why does an omnipotent and benevolent God allow the existance of evil?
I spent a year studying this question during my First Year at University - there is not answer goes on and on and around in circle and it rests not on what any one can prove but rather what people believe - and those people with their scoffing and self-centred righteousness when terrible things happen have something horrible to learn yet - for Christ came for the sinners - like us - and although it is a weird idea - I also believe died for the nay-sayers and the orthodox - he died for everyone
Dec
30 May 2017 05:56 PM
30 May 2017 05:56 PM
Hello @Owlunar, the thread is called "stop I don`t want to play anymore "
I have not anymore yet about Mr shaz but I will xx
31 May 2017 12:13 AM - edited 31 May 2017 11:07 AM
31 May 2017 12:13 AM - edited 31 May 2017 11:07 AM
warning to reader - this post is loaded with religious context (christian faith) between Dec & I and not intended to offend or attract criticism. If you don't share the faith - I suggest you don't read on.
Hi @Owlunar, thank you so much for your long heartfelt post, and i like the warning at the beginning i hadn't thought of doing that.
I really appreciate that i can 'bounce' doctrine about with an experienced other (wise old owl), thank you.
I'm still not convinced God doesn't 'punish' - I want to believe the new covenant of Jesus Christ more, but I still see the same things in the world as OT punishments / disciplines.
I HAVE done some 'bad' things Dec (sin not crime), some i am ashamed of - but should it matter once confessed, changed ways, repented? And isn't all sin equal before God Anyway? (once the law is broken its broken, everyone sins, not everyone shares the same suffering). God promises to 'forgive' past sin through Christ (the final sacrifice) for those who ask, wash it away! Remove us from 'the curse of the law' So why has even death come to my (our) house? It does 'feel' like my peace with God has not healed as promised, I try so hard.
A/C preparing the heart for communion is good, I try!
God is mostly merciful, but he is also just. Its an enigma to me
I want to believe we, you & i, did not do anything to deserve such a "terrible retribution" as losing our child (teen). But it plays on mt mind that a year before my girl died I got desperate and had a reading with a psychic. I know I shouldn't have and repented but I fear I opened a portal, a door for evil. All of us got very sick that year. A consequence more than punishment perhaps, but still my fault, and not stopped by the one who could.
I'm trying to submit to the discipline of The Father, part of repentance, and carry my cross, but its just hard. And hope I have learned and don't go there again, but my girl is gone, its a high price, too high I think. It is my lot. I have the hope of heaven's reunion at least, she was very spiritual for a young person. But I miss her here now, an the world lost a beautiful.soul. on my watch 😞 This is hard to live down. And as one of my neighbours said - why her and not a naughty brat whose parents don't care" i dont shair that view, no child deserves to die, but I feel it, the unfairness.
I dont belong to a Pentacostal Church but was for years and still carry some of their false teaching, their fixed & cruel interpretation, esp the simplistic view of blaming (and shunning) the individual above community and collective sin. Everyone contributes to corruption of the world.
Yes, i have moved away from them to more compassionate mainstream fellowship, and I sometimed miss it, but avoid church buildings (big institutions) now, only attend a weekly bible study & special functions atm. Its like I've 'outgrown' church structure as such (I'd rather gather under a tree like Jesus did mostly. I do believe and am comforted by taking regular communion, to symbolically remember the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ for my soul at least. Gives me strength to know I'm forgiven when I can see past circumstances and have faith (hard to let go).
Falling asleep here my wise old friend
Good night to you :).
31 May 2017 09:30 AM
31 May 2017 09:30 AM
Once again - this post has been written for Lapses and contains religious material. Anyone can read it but if it could cause you problems - it's better that you don't
Hi @Former-Member
You have given me a lot to think about here - I have to concentrate while I write which means I will probably leave the computer from time to time as I write to give myself a chance to work on it
It seems to me that you have left the Pentacostal Church but you are in a state of transistion as you move toward a more mainstream church - and this is natural - you are still carrying the teachings of one body of doctrine and not all their teaching is wrong - so it takes time and thought as you work through all of this
The difference lies between the OT world of creation, exodus from slavery, building of the Jewish state, the judges and the prophets to the NT - the birth of Christ and the coming of the Messiah as foretold. It didn't work out quite as the prophets thought it would and outside of Bible teaching and from the historical point of view there was a lot of dissension in the world when Jesus was born - and this is when the Romans rules so much of the world - it was when the time was ripe and one reason Christianity was able to spread so far was that God has picked his time - the Roman roads made the way easier for the Word to spread.
The God of the OT and the God of the NT is the same God - but Christ died so the punishment for our sins is washed away by the crucifixion - all we need to do is to confess and repent - and this is hard because it takes a lot of practise to believe our "sins" can be taken away from us so easily - yet I have found it is harder than that because we are punished by our parents when we do wrong - and they can remind us of our faults for years to come -
But this isn't the case with God - our sins are forgiven forever - and we can be so sorry for what we have done wrong that we can curse ourselves for our mistakes - but that does not come from God - it comes from our own fallen state - and yes - I have done some wrong things in my life - but I believe that whenever I feel those memories return I can confess and repent again - it is not held against me
So you ask - is all sin equal before God - yes - I think it is and can find scripture to explain this - but also - God forgives all sin freely - and you ask - if this is true why has death come to your house and my house.
This is so easy to answer - and again I know there is scripture to base my answer but it would be harder to find. But truly - the answer is right before us - no one gets out of this life alive in the body. Everyone dies - and I could not convince my poor mother that there was nothing to fear. It is a natural process - the old and sick and frail of all species fall to make room for more life. Every one dies - death comes to every house. There are those who would tempt fate by saying to the grieving that they need to get over it - but no one can get around it. Our children did not die because of our sin or their sin or the sin of the fathers - they died because that's natural - and I don't know why you daughter died - my son chose to end his life - he had free-will just like everyone else but why was he so unhappy? That's a long story actually - and I have already written a lot of that story - but yes - God allowed it
You did an unwise thing by consulting a psychic - but not a wrong thing - I don't know about opening a portal - a door for evil. I believe it is possible. A psychic is a person who has inner vision and some are better than others - some are sensible enough to keep it to themselves - others use it for various reasons - but I don't think evil entered through that door to take your daughter - I think that it gave you the guilt you experience - or it seems that you experience.
Consequences - um yes - everyone got sick and your girl died - but you did not cause that - what has happened is that you have blamed yourself - and please don't - the price you are paying is guilt that you did that - and yes - it does warn us in the NT not to go there - but that's a warning because anyone can be led astray
The process of cross-carrying - oh my - how people mistake that expression. Someone with health problems, family problems, financial problems - whatever problem one can invent - will sign and moan and say "Well - it's my cross and I must carry it" - I get steamed up to know that people think that the natural processes of life involve the cross - this isn't the case at all
Cross-carrying involves a choice. Christ did not want to carry his cross - he was a young man who did not want to die - but chose to do his father's will. So it is with us - we can choose to do what we do - many people try and walk away from their problems - but to turn and make a choice to carry on with our problems and be active in dealing with them is the harder way - the way we would rather not go. It's a choice
Time and time again I made the choice to stick with my unhappy adopted child - who could not understand why his birth-mother had "thrown him away" and why should he? - he could not accept that I loved him. Time and time again I chose to continue to do whatever I could for this child - and he died anyway - and I had been choosing to carry that cross and after he died it was hard - just as hard as it is for everyone else who has a child die - but my cross was taken away from me - and to this day I must admit relief - I know the difference.
We need structure when studying the Bible - but we can do that under a tree - I did a course in Preliminary Theology when my kids were young and I could study by correspondence - I have studied something all my life.
And our children are safe with God - and he knew all along what would happen - he knows us. He knew what mankind would do before he made the world and prepared for that and God knows to what it is like to have his Son die - even though he returned to life and lived with us for a few weeks longer - God had to have faith too - because that had never been done before
But God is not at all angry because we question, because we sometimes lack faith, because we make mistakes - and he is a God of love and mercy - and is amazingly wonderful when we turn him repenting of what we have done wrong
I don't know what sin is - but when my children we young and I was a young mother with too much on my plate - I thought this - I really don't mind what my children are doing unless they are hurting each other or someone else. To this day I think God considers each person differently but it comes down to the same thing - we love God and our neighbour and we don't go around hurting each other or the creation
My best thoughs - I think I am a wise old owl - a hard life has taught me a great deal - and if I can relieve one person's sorrow because I have the faith to question and learn the way, the truth and the life to share - my life's difficulties have been worth it
Lots of hugs
Dec
31 May 2017 09:42 AM
31 May 2017 09:42 AM
Hi @Shaz51
I read your thread "I don't want to play anymore" and felt terrible sad that someone as young as your husband should feel this way
Maybe it's because life is not a game - it's the real deal and he has had enough of playing at life
And this is rough for you too - what did I learn about work and play once?
Yes - play is when we are doing what we like - it could be the hardest work in the world but if we like it - we are playing
But what a drudge if we found life was only work and never play - even going ourside in the sun to sit and read or do a puzzle was work - alas - that would be hardship indeed
I am just so sorry he feels this way - maybe he is working as hard as possible - we all do I think - but there is not light-hearted fun anywhere in the shadows of his mind
Aw Shaz - that is a puzzle - he needs to get lost in huge group hug
Dec
31 May 2017 11:34 AM
31 May 2017 11:34 AM
Thank you @Dec, iI am actuallyloving this discussion, being able to get out what's really bothering me. I can't talk about this stuff with my psychologists, doctors... unbelievers or even most Christians. People simply don't want to get that deep and I worry my doubts (maybe lack of faith) might shake their spiritual foundations too much. Don't wish to make people uncomfortable. Despite my gripe with God for my unfair circumstances, He is the only one available mostly. Probably how its meant to be as a grownup lol.
Anyway, I want to think before continuing. I did make some little edits to yesterdays post if you want to go back and read again - fixed some wrong spell correct etc to make it more understandable.
Thanks again Dec, you're treasure 🌻
Have to tend to some practical things today, will check back later.
Lapses🌿
PS this scripture comes to mind
03 Jun 2017 07:08 PM
03 Jun 2017 07:08 PM
03 Jun 2017 07:25 PM
03 Jun 2017 07:25 PM
Hi @Former-Member
How about this for a coincidence - I have over-done things and my back is giving me a hard time so you can have all the empathy you need - it's running out of my fingers into my keyboard
I have been trying to get my printer to work - I don't know what's it's name is - I had to dismantle it and put it back together again - not hard work really - but if you have a bad back you know
So I will ring up the vendor tomorrow - I am a registered customer there - so that will be easy
I have been putting my stuff back onto my bookshelves too - gone to far - that's it for now
So what have you done to make you back so bad? Oh yes - gardening - and you have a heat pack - that's good - and yes - I do know what it's like
I am giving up on the printer for now - I guess it has to be connected with a password to my wi-fi - really I thought it would be easier to go wireless - egad!!!
Losing a child to death is permanent - and terrible - I really think it is worse than anything else - but to hear my sister - some years back - I was taking something away from everyone else by having my say about my grief - I guess she either doesn't go there - as she says - or she really doesn't feel stuff
Ah - she will find out
It was hard when my daughter seemed to be buddies with my sister and I felt isolated - but I figured that nothing I could say would change anything regarding a toxic situation and I thought also - people who sit on a fence long enough get splinters in there backside - and it has worked out
So - either is bad - but death is forever - and not everyone gets that and really - do we want them to?
Estrangements have been in my family for longer than my life-time - over a century I think - from what I was told - maybe longer - and it is nasty - bitter - twisted - but my daughter came back to me - and for this I give thanks
Dec
btw - I have a birthday soon - I think I will run a competition to see who can guess how old I am - tee hee
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