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[BlueBay]

Thsnks @Faith-and-Hope it does make sense. Xx

[Owlunar]

Hi @Faith-and-Hope

That makes a lot of sense - I have been practising or trying to practise those very things and I like your analogy to getting an infected tooth out - I have been through that one - also root fillings and because of my horrific bad bite my front teeth broke off at the gum-line - and getting the roots out was scary - and I am reallly lucky with my dentist

But yes - you are in a place where whatever you do is going to be stressful and I am amazed how you keep going but then - I stayed there with my son for the duration and I would not have done anything different - we can only do our best and it will back-fire on us with stress and it has to come back to practising stress related relaxation methods because I have found the habit became natural after a while

And I think that is an unusally long sentence

It's a long time since my son died but it is only a few weeks to the anniversary - and tonight I start different BP medication and the weather in Melbourne is glorious - when the anniversary comes to pass again I know spring is on it's way and I will feel better

But under it all is the practise and the method of caring for myself - 

I really understand what you are writing there - everytime you post like that I find more to understand

For years my parents were most hostile about my activities with my son - I did not need there permission to do what I did and leaving them to their own understanding of whatever it was I was about with my own child was the only way I could deal with everything so yes - to do what is the main thing of importance in our own understanding of our position in the world - you have chosen your husband and children as I did mine - and people who don't want this and think their way is better come after the most important issues

I am still amazed Faith - that you stay with all of this but why should I be - I stuck with my son for the duration and in reality - he never recovered but I do believe he is at peace now

Thanks again Faith

Dec

[Faith-and-Hope]

❤️ @Owlunar ......

[Shaz51]

@Owlunar

[Owlunar]

@Faith-and-Hope💞💗💜

@Shaz51💖💥💙

[utopia]

Wow. A lot of messages to get through.
@Owlunar @BlueBay @Faith-and-Hope.
Okay so what I've learnt about psychosomatic pain.
* The pain is 100% real & if need can be treated with the right pain meds for that moment.
* The mind / brain & body connection is very complicated.
* We all experience pain every day. But most are very short and temporary and nothing to worry about.
* Our brain sends pain or other body reactions (shortness of breath, clammy etc) - it's the minds way of letting you know that you have unresolved issues that need dealing with.
Now I really detest the name psychosomatic. It makes it sound like it's all in our head. And how many times have we heard that expression during our MH journeys?
I think it might be that when we bottle up our emotional pain & aren't trying to fix it - that the brain sends pain to us. The physical pain is nothing compared to the emotional pain we carry. Not even close. So maybe we can think of it as a warning signal - that we need to start looking at 'fixing' our emotional pain. And yes we do this by our 'talk therapy' & by meditation, mindfulness, breathing, exercise, yoga, socialising - living life - while reducing our stress loads.
And all these activities - mindfulness breathing exercises meditation don't work over night. They need to be practiced a few times a day, every day. So then after a month or two of practice we can bring them forward to help us through a tough moment.
Easier said than done. But still doable.
Yes @Owlunar. I guess we need to give ourselves permission to have a I feel sorry for myself hour or day or whatever time frame is set. It's the making sure we don't go over that time frame and that we then move forward with more positive thoughts and actions.
Yes I like feeling like I am in control, dec. Which probably doesn't help at the moment.
@BlueBay - maybe we need to work out our own plans for what we do when this pain hits us.
Eg: tell ourselves we are safe. This is my body letting me know I am overloaded with stress right now.
Have a cuppa.
Sit in the sun.
Breathing exercises.
Meditation or mindfulness
etc etc.
Obviously a work in progress.
Yes I'm angry and sad at this new news. It confirms that this will be a lifelong struggle of trying to balance life and MI. I so wanted to be 'cured'. To know I'll never have another depressive episode. No more suicidal thoughts. No kore months where I can't get out of bed, shower, live.
So with this news, I should probably get off my arse and start practicing these calming techniques.

[BlueBay]

Thanks @utopia fir your post. I'm hearing you and I can empathise with you because I feel like you. I understand what you're saying.
I think when I'm physically I need to remind myself that I'll be ok. Take a deep breath. Because I focus on the physical pain that it then causes me to panic and feel even more sick. And it's a vicious circle that doesn't help either illness. Not sure if I'm making sense ??
All the examples you gave utopia - I need to use when I'm not feeling well.

[utopia]

@BlueBay. You make perfect sense.
I said to my psychologist that when I've been going in for my bp checks - I sit down and do some calming breathing exercises in the belief it will help with my bp reading.
He said and this is why my reading goes high. Because I'm thinking about how to get a low reading and subconsciously my mind is screaming " it's going to be high" - so it is high.
He said even saying positive things to myself - then brings the negative up. So the aim is to try not to think if it at all.
Don't know yet how I'm meant to do that! Lol

[Owlunar]

Hi @utopia

Psychosomatic - it feels as if we can't win with that one - it feels to me if the world of early medical through ganged up on women - we get all the rough stuff - did you know that having a hysterectomy means having your hysterics removed - imagine that - taking out a major organ so a woman could calm down

Obviously whoever invented that never had PMT - oh golly - 

There were a few times when I had my condition blame on so-called psychosomatic reasons and had major surgery - twice emergency surgery - the cause was physical - once my illness was put down to my mother being too nervous but operations I had and I forget how many - and they were necessary

People can turn into a nervous wreck being so ill but looking back - psychosomatic seemed to be the easiest solution for the doctors but what about the patient. I seem to be alive now so I guess I won the game but no wonder I am sometimes emotionally fragile

What other fun can I have with this one - oh yes - it was after my son died and I was at home with horrific pain in the shoulder I had injured in the accident I had just before he died - my then-h rang our clinic and a young woman came to attend me and I had thought out what to say - I was at the end of my tether so I said

"I don't know what to tell you - if I am calm you might imagine I am not as bad as I am feeling but if I am tense might imagine I am making it worse by being nervous - the pain in my shoulder is driving me to tears and the loss of my son makes it all worse"

She put me in hospital for the weekend and I had strong pain medication and it gave me a break to manage to get on with it but some weeks later I the first repair done on my shoulder - 

So what is that all about - presentation and interpretation - I feel in some cases the doctors were more focused on the signs and forgetting the patient knew more about the symptoms - but at times I felt the doctors were not really considering the symptoms

So being misdiagnosed a few times made me wonder a lot about psychosomatic problems and I don't think I ever had one seeing as the operations I had were so necessary so yes

I hate the term too

I read somewhere Utopia - further along on this thread I think that you had an idea that maybe thinking made the whole thing worse because you had the problem thinking about it - I kinda get that because in the past men didn't want women to read becaused it would cause their wombs to shrivle and of course that sorta did happen because women read about birth control and thought "What a good idea" and had less children - men started to lose control over the little women

I don't know if you have read Descartes but his great comment cogito ergo sum - I think therefore I am gives us a good case for thinking - personally I like it - we are aware and we can become more self aware but reading and thinking and not accepting blindly what men thought in the past which can effect medical science today

I don't know if this state of my erudition makes any sense on a Sunday when I really feel tired but we can ignore what a therapist tells us if we feel it is wrong - they do not know our inner life that well - they only hear what we say and there is a wealth of common sense and academic awareness within all of us - a therapist needs to be careful with that word - psychosomatic - if it doesn't fit it doesn't fit

It's time to stop rambling here

I wish you the best

Dec

sigh

[utopia]

@Owlunar - hysterectomy. Of course most womens issues were thought to be from hysterics. We couldn't win back then.
I do acknowledge that my chest pain & high bp readings are due to this 'psychosomatic' thing.
What I didn't like at that session with my psychologist was that my Major Depression etc will be a part of my life, always.
Deep down I've known this but have not wanted to recognise it. Now I have to accept it if I want to move past this pain and learn how to manage it.
But this weekend is all about sleeping and cuddling my wounded soul.